Damascus Steel

[Doctor Antiquarium]

In Vintage Story, the incorporation of Damascus steel could be added through a detailed process that includes combining specific materials, multi-layer forging, and acid etching. This process not only enriches the game with a fascinating historical technique but also introduces new mechanics and challenges for the players.

To begin, players must gather ingots or plates of steel and meteoric iron. These materials are placed in the forge and heated to the appropriate working temperature. The first step in creating Damascus steel is to flatten and combine these materials using a hammer in the forge. This process must be repeated several times: the materials are flattened and stacked, gradually creating a laminated steel with multiple layers. The goal is to reach a factor of 128 layers, which may require several cycles of work in the forge.

Once the desired number of layers has been reached, the materials are forged into a Damascus steel ingot. This ingot, after cooling, is ready to be used in the crafting of various tools and weapons. Among the items that can be forged with this steel are the falx, spearheads, knife blades, and swords. Each of these weapons and tools is formed in the forge, where the Damascus steel ingot is heated and hammered into the desired shape.

The final step in creating Damascus steel involves etching the blade or head of the weapon. For this, players must submerge the forged item in a barrel of tannin water or juice. This liquid acts as a mild acid that etches the surface of the steel, revealing the characteristic patterns of Damascus steel. The blade should remain in the barrel for a specific period to ensure effective etching.

Once the etching is complete, the blade or head must be cleaned and neutralized. This is done by submerging it in water with lime or borax, which neutralizes the tannins and removes any acid residue. After this process, the blade is thoroughly washed to ensure it is free of any corrosive substances.

Finally, the tool or weapon is completed by mounting the handle. In the crafting grid, players place the etched blade or head along with a stick. Damascus steel weapons would have greater durability and damage compared to ordinary steel weapons.

[xXx_Ape_xXx]

Would love to see more in-depth metalworking in the game, I'm all in for this idea 

[LadyWYT]

I'm intrigued by the idea, but I'm curious as to where you got the information regarding the forging method.

4 hours ago, Doctor Antiquarium said:

Damascus steel weapons would have greater durability and damage compared to ordinary steel weapons.

For gameplay reasons, it'd probably need to be a hefty boost to justify that much added time investment. I otherwise don't see a lot of players going through the effort to get both carbon steel and meteoric iron and spend extra time forging it into an ingot and then even more time forging it again into something usable.

Realistically though, Damascus steel is equivalent to standard steel, for the most part. The main difference, aside from the prettier pattern, is that standard steel tends to be tougher, but more prone to cracking. Damascus steel tends to be a bit softer, which makes it more flexible and crack-resistant, but more susceptible to losing its shape and edge through use. I think the better option might be to have some similar method of fusing temporal gears(or at least, the temporal material they're made of) with steel to make temporal steel, an alloy that is both stronger than regular steel, adds to the lore, and required for more advanced Jonas tech.

[Doctor Antiquarium]

On 7/17/2024 at 6:52 PM, LadyWYT said:

I'm intrigued by the idea, but I'm curious as to where you got the information regarding the forging method.

For gameplay reasons, it'd probably need to be a hefty boost to justify that much added time investment. I otherwise don't see a lot of players going through the effort to get both carbon steel and meteoric iron and spend extra time forging it into an ingot and then even more time forging it again into something usable.

Realistically though, Damascus steel is equivalent to standard steel, for the most part. The main difference, aside from the prettier pattern, is that standard steel tends to be tougher, but more prone to cracking. Damascus steel tends to be a bit softer, which makes it more flexible and crack-resistant, but more susceptible to losing its shape and edge through use. I think the better option might be to have some similar method of fusing temporal gears(or at least, the temporal material they're made of) with steel to make temporal steel, an alloy that is both stronger than regular steel, adds to the lore, and required for more advanced Jonas tech.

The forging method is the same as real modern damascus: sheets of one or more types of steel are stacked and heated to weld.
In real life there may be additional steps such as twisting the steel, etc., resulting in diamond patterns as a result.

The pattern reveal is currently done with strong acids (sulfuric, nitric, hydrochloric, iron chloride, etc.), but since alchemy is not implemented in the game, I have opted for alternative methods. It is possible to carry out this process with weak acids (water with tannins, juices, vinegar, etc.), but it will be very slow.
Another option is to remove this step altogether, since it is not really necessary (in real life it is used only for aesthetic reasons).

I considered that Damascus steel must be better than common steel to be worth the effort to make it. Yes, in real life, modern steels are better than the Damascus steel of ancient times, BUT Damascus steel was better than the conventional steels of its time when was invented.

...

Temporal steel seems like a good idea, but I think it should have other exotic attributes instead of being just another tier. For example, it could have retrocasual properties, such as dealing damage before you hit the target, or continuous self-repairing (the material slowly travels to a state back in time). That would make it very interesting. Perhaps it can be used in special clockpunk weapons such as polyboles or automatic crossbows.

Edited July 19 by Doctor Antiquarium

[Maelstrom]

I imagine temporal steel would not be used for tools, but other objects for crafting only.

[ifoz]

12 hours ago, Doctor Antiquarium said:

it could have retrocasual properties, such as dealing damage before you hit the target

How would this actually work in the game? Is it like you walk past a drifter and they just take damage because you could theoretically attack them? Or do you mean that it just has a shorter cooldown time and can attack sooner in it's animation?

 

12 hours ago, Doctor Antiquarium said:

continuous self-repairing (the material slowly travels to a state back in time).

While this would be handy, I think it would be a little too overpowered and mostly remove the need for ever making and smithing tools once you get one temporal steel tool of each type, even if the mending property took a while. I think it would be too much like Minecraft's 'mending' enchantment, which is already an issue in that game.

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I think that the concept of Temporal Steel could perhaps work where you need to power your tools with temporal gears, and in turn it will make them faster, or 'supercharged' for around one in-game day. After that they return to being as fast as steel until powered again.

[LadyWYT]

On 7/19/2024 at 6:19 AM, Doctor Antiquarium said:

The forging method is the same as real modern damascus: sheets of one or more types of steel are stacked and heated to weld.
In real life there may be additional steps such as twisting the steel, etc., resulting in diamond patterns as a result.

Gotcha. I'd prefer to stick to more medieval methods for the game than modern techniques(although some processes don't change much), although in this case it may not be possible. My main sticking point is the time/resource investment it requires on top of the time/resources that regular steel already requires. If the durability bonus of Damascus steel isn't big enough for the investment, it risks being relegated to the same corner as alcohol bandages--they're the best in the category, but not worth the effort to acquire.

One way around it, perhaps, is replacing the steelmaking process entirely with the one you presented here, although that still poses the question of how to layer the metals in the forging process. The forging process we currently have only produces two results--ingot, or finished item. It doesn't really allow for starting with a plate and ending with a plate, although I could be missing something here. In any case, the other problem with this replacement method is that it takes out the refractory as a mechanic, which isn't ideal.

Alternatively, you could keep steelmaking as-is, and add the Damascus method as an alternate way to refine steel from iron(if that's even possible to do, I haven't looked into it to see how feasible it is). Then the player is offered the choice of more easily mass-producing steel(refractory method), or spending more time at the forge to achieve a higher quality steel(Damascus steel). I'm guessing in this scenario, the refractory method will still be the most common choice, as it allows for more steel to be refined at once, whereas the Damascus method will be better suited for making tools and weapons. I can also see the Damascus method being preferred on maps where bauxite is hard to find.

On 7/19/2024 at 6:19 AM, Doctor Antiquarium said:

Another option is to remove this step altogether, since it is not really necessary (in real life it is used only for aesthetic reasons).

You could probably just give Damascus steel its own fancy texture if you left the step out.

On 7/19/2024 at 6:54 PM, ifoz said:

I think it would be too much like Minecraft's 'mending' enchantment, which is already an issue in that game.

Plus the diamond vs netherite issue. Diamond was the end-tier material for the longest time, and then netherite came along to add a bit more durability and damage(and fireproofing), at the expense of being more hassle to obtain. Which meant that if you wanted the "best" equipment, you needed to go through all the hassle to obtain netherite.

In regards to mending itself...I do like the enchantment, but it is kinda game-breaking. It's so useful that you can't really avoid leaving it off your weapons, tools, and armor, and it renders the repairing feature of the anvil pointless. Acquiring mending books also isn't terribly difficult, but it is rather tedious as it tends to involve either a lot of fishing, or villager trading(which is a whole different mess). The better option would have been making the anvil repair process better(anvils more durable, less costly to repair items, etc). Mending books would have worked better as a one-time-use item that can fully repair a piece of gear(but not enchant it), making it desirable for pieces that are too expensive to repair on anvils. To obtain one, you'd need to venture into one of the Ancient Cities(or some equivalent treasure spot), as they can't be obtained by normal means(similar to Notch apples).

Alternatively, the mending enchantment could have just made the item it was applied to drop a broken item when it reaches zero durability, rather than just disappearing. That way, you'd still have the item and be able to repair it, but you'd need to invest actual materials into the repairs and not just experience.

On 7/19/2024 at 6:54 PM, ifoz said:

I think that the concept of Temporal Steel could perhaps work where you need to power your tools with temporal gears, and in turn it will make them faster, or 'supercharged' for around one in-game day. After that they return to being as fast as steel until powered again.

That was my general thought. Either that, or have them be unbreakable, but useless when they hit zero durability unless you recharge them with a temporal gear. Similar to how a lot of modded electric tools function in the other block game.