drifters in caves

[foebits]

I've seen this topic done a number of times over the last couple years as I have searched to find out options and alternatives, but I need to throw another one in here.

Drifter spawn rates in the caves... Why?

 

There is absolutely no need to have them spawning faster than you can even dispatch them. It's literally raining the buggers in the cave right now as they spawn and fall to land in front of me 2 to 4 at a time.

Yes, you can use fences and such when mining, no problem. But when you are going through ruins that happen to be in the open down there, fences and doors don't cut it. for one they can still throw their homing rocks over the fence and two i would need to lug around enough material to build a moderate sized hut with me at all times. And then of course if you DO have a hut or whatever else with a door, there is always at least 3 of them shoving their faces through it just waiting, so the moment you open it you get blasted with stones. This is nothing more than frustrating and serves seemingly no other purpose than to simply be so. A better way to make caves dangerous would be to have stronger entities the further down you go, no just more rock throwing ticklers. As well as additional enemy types. the mechanical spider things pop into mind; why not have more variety like that? Instead of just mob spamming? And I have read that spamming torches through the cave helps. It really doesn't... For the reasons of A:needing hundreds of them even if it DID work, and B:the little moss-babies spawn directly next to them anyway. I've seen it happen a few times already as they pop into existence underneath one 3 or 4 blocks ahead of me.

Armor, even leather, makes surviving the spam easier and makes having armor feel necessary (as it should, I'm not arguing for "easier " here; quite the opposite actually). But my god, I hope the creators have plans to change the "danger" mechanic of the caves to something actually dangerous or threatening instead of just pointlessly annoying.

Just thought of another alternative to move away from the spam as I type. Perhaps a mob that is slow but hits hard, and can break non-metal fences and doors? It would have a low spawn chance but would slowly stalk you until you either left the cave or killed it. Or to retain an aspect of the current issue if there is an actual reason for it, have a destroyable spawning "nexus" of some sort? And of course the simplest way to improve this without introducing anything new would be to make the spawn rate tie into your stability. It already lowers the deeper you go, tie drifter spawn rates to that. I also believe with my current limited knowledge that everything I have suggested here would improve immersion and be lore friendly.

 

This was all over the place so apologies for the brutal read. I wanted to give suggestions instead of saying "stuff bad, me annoy >8(".

[Wahazar]

Try exploring caves when rift activity is calm.

[foebits]

That's the only time I did for a while. Rift activity doesn't seem to affect cave rates, only rift rates on the surface. coincidentally also the current activity level.

Edited July 20 by foebits

[Streetwind]

It absolutely does affect cave rates. Source: I sometimes went as long as 30 minutes without encountering a single drifter while caving with calm rift activity. More than once.

However, keep in mind that (1) rift weather may change and cause drifters to start spawning again; (2) bells and locusts may still spawn anyway; and (3) there may still be drifters left over that spawned before rift weather calmed down.

[foebits]

well, that's certainly not what I experience. Dozens and dozens of them spawning endlessly until I get near the surface again, whether it's calm or not. This particular cave and time I entered it (just before posting initially) I ran from my hut about 1000 blocks away while it was calm, delved down while it was calm, and fought the hoards, all while rift activity was calm. And that is the norm during my own play time. Which was why I wanted to post to express the frustration and give alternative ideas. Because I just don't experience anything BUT drifter rain in the mines.

 

I think I might take advantage of whatever the entity spawn limit is and trap as many as I can before delving to any real depth. Just make a nice Moss-baby crypt.

[Wahazar]

Maybe whole area is just unstable?

[Thorfinn]

You probably should go caving with at least one full stack of packed earth. Knowing I'm going to pick up stuff while delving, I usually take 2 stacks, one of dirt, the other of packed dirt, so I can top up the packed dirt as needed, and suck up all the stones in the form of paths that I'm going to need anyway., 

Torches work for me, but, again bring at least 2 stacks. They need to be no more than 7 or 8 apart to completely spawn-proof the caves, which takes a crapton. 

[Maelstrom]

Quantity is a quality all it's own.  The number of drifters is in itself a danger mechanic.  I don't know if Tyron will (or has plans to) change cave spawning different.

[foebits]

well you're certainly not wrong. But does it not feel dissatisfying to you that that is the only thing going on? Personally I find it a cop-out's way to try introducing difficulty/danger when it's the done as the only source. I only know what is going on in game at the moment and have no clue where they may be planning on taking this section of the gaeme if anywhere, I can only see, think, and offer suggestions for what I feel would be improvements. As it is now it's just one or nothing. You either get mobbed incessantly until you get chipped away, or you dig a 3 deep hole the width of the cave and never have to deal with it. For me it feels unfinished and the solution cheap. not counting for the torches that others find work and I don't. Like the drifters in the caves were implemented as a place holder and forgotten.

[LadyWYT]

Out of curiosity, you aren't running any mods that change the spawn conditions of drifters, are you(such as one that prevents drifters from spawning on the surface)? That could possibly account for drifter spawns being a little out of whack. Otherwise, I would chalk it up to bad luck.

7 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

I don't know if Tyron will (or has plans to) change cave spawning different.

I don't know if the spawning would change, but I'm guessing the drifters will probably get a bit of an update sooner or later.

[Maelstrom]

@foebits Please don't take my comments that I prefer it that way.  Was just pointing out a possible justification for it being the way it is.  Hopefully it gets updated with the new nasty that's coming in 1.20.

[Alder]

Ok, there are quite a few things that affect drifter spawning, here's my tips for reducing spawns and handling drifters.

1. As you already mentioned; Bring a ton of torches, they're cheap and you can batch-light them in a campfire. Lighting the area will aid in reducing numbers.
2. Spawn-proof frequently treaded areas. If there's a path that you're going across constantly (ie. the stretch before a threeway fork) then place stones atop every block to spawn-proof the area, this helps ensure a safe way to retreat should you find yourself near death.
3. You need to be temporally stable. The lower your stability the more frequent (and more powerful) drifters will spawn, there is an incredibly sizable increase just by going under 50% stability. This might mean shorter caving trips, or bringing temporal gears with you to refill your stability.
4. Make sure you have a shield. You mentioned frustration with the rocks drifters throw at you, a shield will block these entirely, and assuming you're placing torches as you go, you won't need your offhand for light, even the earliest shield in the game can greatly increase your survivability against drifters.

I definitely agree that more cave enemies would be cool, and I do believe they'll be added, this game is certainly not done yet.
That being said, after going against one of those bells underground, I don't know how many more enemies my heart can take

[Alder]

On 7/20/2024 at 12:10 PM, foebits said:

And I have read that spamming torches through the cave helps. It really doesn't... For the reasons of A:needing hundreds of them even if it DID work, and B:the little moss-babies spawn directly next to them anyway. I've seen it happen a few times already as they pop into existence underneath one 3 or 4 blocks ahead of me.

2 minutes ago, Alder said:

1. As you already mentioned; Bring a ton of torches, they're cheap and you can batch-light them in a campfire. Lighting the area will aid in reducing numbers.
3. You need to be temporally stable.

I also forgot to mention, that lighting up areas does not matter if you aren't temporally stable.

Temporal instability allows drifters to spawn right next to you despite lighting, the only way to prevent this is spawn-proofing using rocks or other proofing materials.

[Maelstrom]

Low temporal stability = personal temporal storm for spawning mechanics.    Once had a sawblade spawn practically on top of me.  Didn't know it was there until it took a chunk outa my hide followed by that wonderful buzzsaw warning.  >.<

[Gorfinhofin]

On 7/23/2024 at 3:55 AM, Alder said:

2. Spawn-proof frequently treaded areas. If there's a path that you're going across constantly (ie. the stretch before a threeway fork) then place stones atop every block to spawn-proof the area, this helps ensure a safe way to retreat should you find yourself near death.

The stones trick has been patched out for a while now, as far as I'm aware. It was never fool-proof either. Drifters could sometimes spawn in the air above the stones. Also, I've never seen temporal instability cause enemy spawns except when it's at like, 10%. Whatever point it is where you start getting the flickering drifters, and the creepy descending droning sound.

To OP, something cheesy to keep in mind: Dead drifters count for the entity limit. So if you don't harvest their bodies they will actually prevent new spawns, until they disappear on their own.

 

[Alder]

1 hour ago, Gorfinhofin said:

The stones trick has been patched out for a while now, as far as I'm aware. It was never fool-proof either. Drifters could sometimes spawn in the air above the stones.

Aw man really? Dang, guess I need to be conscious of that next time I return to the caves...

[Maelstrom]

Placing stones to knap should still work, also placing a single charcoal.  I haven't tested it extensively but haven't had spawns in the limited cases I've used it.

[Hyperbus]

This is exaclty why me and my pals have been waiting for a combat update before giving this game a serious long term go. The caving is just a horrendus slog that's not worth it at all. Drifters spawn within a few blocks of you at a rate at or faster than you can dispatch them. It's absolutely ridiculous to the point the game feels like it's trying to tell me that I should avoid caves altogether and I was a fool to think they would be a good way to find minerals. Honestly My friends and I are just kinda waiting for the lore stuff to be done and over with so they can properly address the monster interactions, which are much more pressing in gameplay.

[Thorfinn]

It's really not that bad once you get over your fear of drifters. Unless it's a megacave, you can usually just run through it clean, not placing anything, so long as you are reasonably good at remembering the route you just took. If your short term memory is not up to the task because you have had an adult beverage or two, or whatever, a single stack of hay bales gives you the potential to leave behind 512 unmistakable and, if circumstances permit, easily recovered breadcrumbs. Slightly larger caves you might want to place a dirt block to indicate when you've explored a branch and there's nothing of interest beyond.

Most of the time, you can run right past drifters without taking more than rock damage, for everything else, there are poultices. Plus, once you find some ruin you want to explore later, or a translocator you want to have easy access to bring back temporal gears, or you simply got lost and your stability or equipment is getting low, it's quite easy to just dig straight up to the surface right there. So long as you are not playing Waterworld, that will mostly come out fine, or easily remedied with just a few blocks.

Edited August 23 by Thorfinn

[Thorfinn]

12 hours ago, Hyperbus said:

and I was a fool to think they would be a good way to find minerals

Incidentally, that's mostly true in standard. Seems caves like to form where there are trace ores, at best. (OK, that's somewhere between pessimism and realism.) The radius search mode in standard is much more reliable than randomly running through caves.

In wilderness, which does not have radius, yeah, caving is better, but that's an advanced, challenge mode, where it's presumed you already have a pretty good mastery of the rest of the game, including caving.

[Omega Haxors]

A set of lamellar is enough to completely negate their rocks, once you learn that they go from annoying to completely ignorable.
The rock only does a single point of damage, so if your damage % and damage reduction add up to be less than 1, it just bounces off.

I personally enjoy fighting the Nnns in the caves, it makes things a little more interesting. Just wish their higher tier counterparts did more ranged damage so they put up a threat. It's actually easier to deal with them once you have basic armor because their rock throw goes off on cooldown and overrides/cancels all other AI actions.

Now you know what would make them really scary? Is if they could leap at you to close the distance rather than just lazily pelting you with a rock. Make it require some time to charge up as an action so they can't just spawn in and immediately use it on you *coughrockscough* Give it very little horizonal component and make them not use it if you're already close to their Y level so they can do it to jump out of pits or deal with you trying to pillar-cheese them but they won't do it if you're playing fair.

Edited 10 hours ago by Omega Haxors